Oct 20, 2021
Zoe Langley-Wathen 00:17
Hello, and welcome back to the HeadRightOut Podcast. This is theshow that hopefully will launch you into doing something that isway beyond your comfort zone. Something that you never believed youwere capable of doing. Perhaps there's just a little seed of anidea growing and hopefully this is going to be the show that willspur you on that will give you the encouragement that you need toHeadRightOut. Now today, I have a lovely, lovely guest, somebodywho I've been friends with online for many years. Her name isStephie Boon, and I have to say she is so honest in herconversation with me, particularly about her experiences withmental health. I should add here that we do talk about the darkerside of depression, anxiety, and feelings of suicide. So if you arenot in the right frame of mind to listen, please feel free to skipthis episode for another day when you're feeling in a better place.That said, Stephie is still very keen for women who suffer withdepression to hear her story and understand that there's a light atthe end of the tunnel. There ARE ways of coping and learning tomanage this debilitating illness. We also touch on early menopauseand living with a son with Aspergers and how above everything else,hiking just fuels our souls... and challenges... well, they help usto push us out of our comfort zone and they help to give us focus.There's a lot of things that Stephie and I have in common, and inaddition to we both love hiking, we both feel the same aboutchallenges, and funnily enough, we both have a degree in Fine Artin fact, Steffi has got post-grad in Fine Art. So we just have verysimilar viewpoints. It's a wonderful conversation, go and have alisten. Enjoy.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 02:21
Okay, and welcome everybody, back to the HeadRightOut Podcast.My name is Zoe Langley-Wathen and I am here today with anotherwonderful guest. Today I am going to be chatting to Stephie Boonand I have a wee bio here to read out for you so Stephie lives inCornwall, she spends a lot of time on the coast path. A woman aftermy own heart. She's been a walker and backpacker for as long as shecan remember. One of her most significant past challenges was tohike the Inca Trail, before her fortieth birthday. She made it atthirty-eight! It was a charity track and the biggest part of thechallenge was the fundraising.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 03:00
Nowadays she solo hikes and wild camps in the UK. At the momenther goal is to backpack all the national trails before she reachessixty. So far she's completed the South West Coast Path, Offa's Dyke Path, the Cotswold Way, the South Downs Way, the Pedders Way and Norfolk CoastPath, and she says she's gradually working her way south tonorth. Stephie has an MA in Fine Art and always takes a sketchbookwith her on her hikes. She plans to make a series of national trailpaintings and possibly sell or publish them. Stephie shares herexpertise and guides over on her website and on her blog, 10MileHike. She also sufferswith serious episodes of depression, which was first treated forher in her early twenties. She's very open about this on her socialmedia and within her blog, and she hopes that by sharing herexperiences, she may inspire others to overcome personaldifficulties and step out of their comfort zones. After all, lifeis just too precious not to do the things you've always wanted todo. There's also an article over on the 10MileHike blog called'Fears Laid Bare' and I'll put the link to that inthe show notes. It really does bear all, particularly about thebiggest challenge that Stephie is facing at the moment, thatshe says is literally scaring the living daylights out of her. Andthat's something we'll come to in a moment. Stephie, welcometo HeadRightOut.
Stephie Boon 04:23
Hi Zoe, and thank you so much for having me. It's a realpleasure.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 04:29
It is an absolute pleasure and delight for me too and I shouldlet the listeners know that we have been friends on social mediafor how long? Probably four or five years maybe?
Stephie Boon 04:39
Yeah, long time.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 04:41
Feels like a long time and we feel like we know each other sowell. We've had lots of conversations back and forth, and lots ofsupport for one another and lots of Insta love. And now this is thefirst time that we've actually spoken... I want to sayface-to-face.Well, this is as close as face-to-face as we're gonnaget at the moment - it's Zoom-to-Zoom.
Stephie Boon 05:04
Live, I think is what we can call it.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 05:08
Yes.
Stephie Boon 05:08
In real time.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 05:10
So, Stephie, where did it all start with your love for hiking?You know you're setting out to cover all of these trails, but haveyou been hiking from a really early age?
Stephie Boon 05:20
Actually, this is quite interesting. I was sixteen when I wenton my first backpacking trip with a couple of school friends, andwe went to the South Downs Way. It was just a few days and we werejust wandering around, as teenagers do completely clueless, justhaving as much fun as possible. But then, earlier this year, Irealised it was forty years since my first backpacking trip, and Idecided to celebrate that by going back to the South Downs. And Iwalked the South Downs Way, which is part of what I walked when Iwas a teenager. So I decided I'd stay at one of the youth hostelsthat we'd stayed at when I was young, as it was a bit of ananniversary. An anniversary hike.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 06:17
And a trip down memory lane too.
Stephie Boon 06:20
Yes, yeah. It was really funny actually, because my memories ofthat trip was bright sunshine, and hot and beautiful scenery. Andthis time it just rained. And storms, big winds, forty-fifty milean hour winds. So a very different experience.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 06:42
It's interesting, isn't it? Because very often, when people arerecounting their stories from their teenage hiking experiences orcamping experiences, very often it's the other way around. Youknow, they had an awful time and their feet hurt, they had blistersand it rained like the devil, and they swore they would never, everdo it again. And "how dare they" whoever 'they' were, you know,perhaps it was parents or school, "how dare they make me do this"?So you had an amazing experience by the sounds of it.
Stephie Boon 07:15
It was. I always have really good memories of it. Just gettingout into the countryside, just seeing these amazing views, that I'dnever experienced before. And just feeling completely at homereally. That was realising I think that I was most at home in theoutdoors, and walking, cycling, whatever it might be.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 07:40
Yeah, I can relate to that. At home in the outdoors. Definitely.So how long was it before you then went off and did anotherhike?
Stephie Boon 07:48
Oh, probably quite a long time. Years, I would think. I did acycling/bike-packing trip afterwards, which again wasn'tparticularly far. I think it was about a week, something like that,again along the south coast, all along the Seven Sisters. Then Iwent to art school, and most of the walks that I was doing thenreally were around the coast path and still cycling, but no majorgoals, I suppose. Everything else seemed to be... my focus was verymuch art at the time. That was just my absolute passion, I thinkwas art. But I was still drawing the landscape walking in anddrawing. You know, taking everything with me and drawing outside.Then we did the usual holidays. Walking holidays just in thiscountry - Lake District mostly.
Stephie Boon 08:50
Then I had my son and it became family camping holidays onExmoor, wild camping on Dartmoor. I think the first time I wentsolo wild camping was probably twelve years ago now and haven'tlooked back since. That's when hiking became a thing I felt Ineeded to do.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 09:16
So in some ways, then although you had met and identified withhiking a long time ago, would it be correct to say that you didn'treally feel the need for it - you didn't identify with it assomething that made you feel better in your life until midlife?
Stephie Boon 09:33
I think I did realise that, but I don't think I realised that itcould give me the challenges that it does. And it's the challengethat I thrive on now. I think previously it was mainly enjoyment,you know about being outside and just loving nature and knowingthat when I was feeling ill that was where most people might thinkyou retreat inside, but I retreated outside. It's just where I feltthe need to be. And I've always escaped to the outdoors. on myown.
Stephie Boon 10:12
It was my way of just being - allowing myself to just be. Itwasn't, I think, until I started really wild camping on my own,that I saw that I could create these challenges, which is whatexcites me now. And how you can overcome personal difficulties,it's a wonderful place to step outside your comfort zone, and toshow it's a really odd phrase, but to prove to yourself, whatyou're made of, really, and what you can do. And it's funny, I'dnever thought of myself as a resilient person at all. I've neverfelt that I bounced back from things particularly quickly. But Irealised over the years, I'm actually a very tenacious person, andI will hang on and push myself through when things are verydifficult, whether that's hiking or life in general, I feel theneed to just grip hard onto things. And just a sheer determinationwill get me through difficult things.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 10:20
It's so wonderful to hear you talking like that Stephie, becauseI, actually in hearing a lot of what you're saying, I feel it couldbe me talking, there are so many things there that I connect with,and in particular, the needing a challenge. I mean, I didn'tdiscover until I was forty, that it was actually the challenge thatI thrive on. So yeah, doing, yeah, going off long distance walking,facing some of those things that are perhaps out of my comfortzone, and that I had perhaps avoided previously, suddenly, it'slike, oh, gosh, this is this is what I need. I love being outdoors.But the challenge is definitely what I need. And it sounds likeyes, that it is for you too. It's fabulous.
Stephie Boon 12:08
I think when I hiked the Inca Trail, I'd run a business forfourteen years, and we made hand-painted kitchens and furniture. Sotime was very precious, you had very little free time, and I wasjust determined that before the age of forty, I was going to dosomething that was challenging, and was something I'd alwaysdreamed of doing, which was trekking or hiking in an environmentthat I had never been in before. And I think when I did that, andthe physical challenges are huge, you know, hiking at altitude,that you're not used to. People dropping like flies from altitudesickness, and that's really not something that you can predict. Youeither get, it or you don't. It's just one of those things. It'sgot nothing to do with fitness or health. And I was lucky, I didn'thave that. So I did plod along these really high places, and thefeeling of euphoria that you have when you get to the top and youlook down and you think, 'I've done that, I've walked that'. Thatwas the realisation, I think that it's actually the challenge thatI love.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 13:35
But it took a while then I think to find other challenges,because of other life difficulties. Now I had a long termrelationship just fell apart. I was with my son's father fortwenty-three years. After the business collapsed, then wecollapsed, and I think it just took a long time to find who I wasamongst all that fairly negative, extremely stressful part of life.Yeah, I feel like I've come out of all of that on the other side,but there are lots of other challenges and that's due to health andfinances, basically. Yeah.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 14:22
Wow, there's a lot in there that I'd like to just tease into ifthat's, okay?
Zoe Langley-Wathen 14:28
All of those things that you go through as well in life,particularly that relationship split, and I can totally relate tothat, because that happened to me some years ago, and at the time,I was just in the wilderness and didn't know where I was going, whoI was, what I was going to do, and I just felt like my whole worldhad fallen apart. That was a long term relationship too. But Ithink now in hindsight, I can see how I've learned from it, howI've benefited from it and each of those painful episodes have justadded to my colorful tapestry of life. And I talk about life asbeing like a tapestry. And it's a bit floppy to begin with, becausewe don't have many skeins of thread in that tapestry. But the moreskeins of thread that are added, the stronger it becomes, and themore resilient we become. And it just builds up our copingmechanisms and our ability to be able to manage a situation nexttime, it might not be a similar situation. But I think it justbuilds us and it also makes us more aware of other people'ssituations, it gives us more empathy, which I think is alsoimportant as people, you know, we obviously need that.
Stephie Boon 14:28
Yeah.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 15:40
It's interesting, so you've talked about going through somedifficult times, and then finding things that would help you.Finding yourself. Finding challenge. But you talk about fears,things that scare you on your blog, and I'd like to tease back intothat in relation to what you've just been talking about. How havethose fears affected you, and would you like to talk to us aboutwhat those fears are?
Stephie Boon 16:09
Yeah, when you suffer from regular bouts of long periods ofdepression, and feeling suicidal, I've had significant periods ofmy life where I've been in the mental health system with CPNs(community psychiatric nurse) for years and years, and one of thethings that being in that situation is that it's very difficult tohave a regular income, because there are periods where you can'twork. I haven't worked for a very long time, because of illness,and because of another issue that I have. This is something I don'ttalk about a great deal, but my son has Asperger's, and it affectshim mostly with really high anxiety. And that puts constraints onwhat I can do. I spend a lot of time anxious about him, I spend anawful lot of time being anxious about money and finances, and I amliving on the bare minimum, basically, you cannot say, at all. So Ihave this little pot of savings. And I've been keeping it as anemergency fund. But it's really strange because this money is tiny.It's sat there for a couple of years doing nothing. And yousuddenly think, 'well, what am I going to do, am I gonna leave thatthere for another five years and do nothing and not experience lifein the way that is meaningful to me? Or am I just going to overcomethe fears that I have of spending some of that money on investingin myself and my own wellbeing mental health?' And this year, Ihave walked three national trails using some of those savings, andit has scared the living daylights out of me. I mean, it really hasbecause you feel well, I have nothing, what if something else goeswrong. And now I just think Well, as I said to I think a word I'vealways used to describe myself is 'tenacious', and I just think ifsomething else happens, I'll just hang on in there until I can finda solution. So why not just invest in in myself and go out, jump infeet first, and do something that hopefully will inspire otherpeople or might inspire other people. But even now just talkingabout spending some of that money doing hiking, I can feel myselfshaking, thinking 'oh my god, what if, what if!'
Zoe Langley-Wathen 19:01
But I'm so pleased that you did actually take some of that, togo off and do those trails. I mean, I was following you throughoutthe summer, and even up until just a couple of weeks ago when youfinished your last walk and I could see how much you werebenefitting from it. Did the fear subside whilst you are actuallyout on the trail?
Stephie Boon 19:21
Oh, I didn't give it a thought. Not a single thought! It's justwhen I get back home and my world feels very, very small, when I'mat home. I don't have a car. Travel is not easy using publictransport. So I think when your world is small, you tend to... Iparticularly... focus on the negative or I focus on the moredifficult things, whereas when I'm outside and you're looking atthis beautiful, spacious environment, you become spaciousyourself.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 20:02
I love that. I absolutely love that. When you're outside, youbecome spacious. And it fills your soul, doesn't it?
Stephie Boon 20:09
It really does, it feels like your whole body is this space tofill it up with wonderful things, whereas when I'm at home, I feelsmall and withered. I'm sitting here and I'm imagining a funnel onthe top of my head, and trying to fill that funnel with goodthings. But when I'm at home, my body feels so small, and thatthere's not enough space to put anything else in, because I'mconstantly worrying about how I'm going to get through the day, howI'm going to get through the next week. Whereas when I'm outsidethat just goes and you can fill up with life; with what lifeactually is. Where it's meaningful, where you are, where you reallyfeel you ARE part of nature, you ARE nature. You're not separatefrom it, which I think is what our society forcing us into thesesmall spaces does. It disconnects us from what we really are, whichis part of nature.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 21:21
We are one hundred percent that, and a lot of people don't seethat, because it's very much about the material things. We're avery commercial world, aren't we? Sadly.
Stephie Boon 21:31
Yes.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 21:32
Just then going back to how you feel out on a trail, compared tohow you feel when you're indoors. You know, you said you're feelingvery small, very withered. It sounds like you're feeling veryrestricted, whereas when you're outside, you're feeling free. Ifyou are planning... so let's say you're indoors, and you've beenindoors for months, but you suddenly have an idea to walk a trail,but you know, you can't do it for another, say another six weeks.If you are then focused on planning that trail, does that changeyour mindset? Does that change how you frame your day and how youfeel.
Stephie Boon 22:13
Zoe, I plan NOTHING!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 22:15
Oh Stephie, I love you!
Stephie Boon 22:20
It's terrible, the thing for me is complete freedom. You cannotplan for the unexpected. I think being completely free is abouthaving no plans at all. The plans I have are the day I leave, andthe day I will come back, how I'm going to travel. I've worked outroughly how many miles on average I will need to walk whilst I'maway. But then when I'm away, I might think I'm going to walktwenty-five miles today and I'll do eleven the next day, becausethere's somewhere I'd like to spend some time, or I might be hikingalong and I'm wild camping, and you might find a wonderful placewhere you'd like to stop that might be, I don't know, five milesshort of where you were planning to get to that day. But becauseyou have the flexibility, and you don't have the fixed plans, youcan do that.
Stephie Boon 23:25
So the planning for me, I think, when I'm at home is planning,when I'm going to go, how I'm going to do it, it'll be planning,and I'm really not very good at this, but planning the things thatI need to take on my back, that will sustain me, give me shelterover the time that I'm away. And I've only just really begun tothink, 'right well, next year, I am going to do X, Y and Z'. AndI'm going to try I guess you could say that the trouble with doingwhat I've done this summer is that once you've had that experience,you really want more.
Stephie Boon 24:12
The only way I'm going to be able to do that is if I can affordthe train fares. So I'm trying my best to put a plan in place sothat I can afford some train fares, next year. That's where myplanning comes.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 24:29
Yeah, I can understand that. And you're creative - you'recreative in so many ways. So I'm sure you'll work out somethingthat will make that happen for you. As far as the anxiety goes, andI'm really sorry to hear that you have gone down into that deepest,darkest pit that has taken you to thoughts of suicide. I know thiswill potentially be a trigger for quite a few people.
Stephie Boon 24:58
Yeah. I hope that my experiences will enable people to see thatyou can come through, even though in those darkest times you feellike, there's never going to be a way out.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 25:14
Do you have people? Were you're dealing with this alone?
Stephie Boon 25:18
I have a strong medical support. It gets that bad at times, andI know that I can always find and access that support when I needit. Whereas I think a lot of people going into realising that theyneed help, more help than friends or family can give, I think it'sdifficult to know where to go to find that. But I've always hadaccess to that through my GP, through the mental health team,psychiatrists, therapists, all of these things, but I went througha particularly low period last year, and I changed medicationagain, which is a constant theme. I changed medication againearlier this year. And it takes a few months for that to hit, forthat to work. But I think that after so many decades of this kindof illness, I'm only just beginning to realise the thoughtprocesses or what's happening around me that indicate that I needto seek help before I get further down into that cycle. And thatcan be things like, I might notice that all I'm eating is bread andpasta - so carbs. Or that I really don't feel like going outside.That's a big one for me, when I know that the thing that I know,helps maintain mood at a reasonable level, when I feel that themotivation to do that, the energy to help myself in that way, Iknow that I need to go and find help.
Stephie Boon 27:19
So, to go back to the beginning of this complete ramble, my hopeis that if somebody feels that I'm talking about triggering things,that I am proof, I suppose that you can come through these things -again and again. And that's not to diminish how difficult it is,because it's really tough. It's really tough.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 27:46
So you can get through it, I get a sense that you're saying thatyou CAN get through it. It's not necessarily something that goesaway. It's something that you are living with.
Stephie Boon 27:55
Yeah.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 27:55
But you learn to recognise the warning signs, and you now knowwhat to do, where to get help, how to handle your own mentalhealth, to ensure that you don't end up in the bottom of that pitagain.
Stephie Boon 28:12
Yeah, yeah and I think I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but Ithink that if you go through cycles of depression, constantly,throughout a life, then that's what you need to do. That's whatI've learned through therapy, is help to understand the changesaround me to notice them, so that I can step in and helpmyself.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 28:41
Good, yeah.
Stephie Boon 28:41
Basically.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 28:43
Yeah, well, yes, so that is an important one, isn't it? And didyou find that things became harder for you throughout your son'schildhood years, both with your mental health and being able to getoutside and do those things that you needed or wanted to do? Couldyou get out for walks? Could you handle things when your son wasyoung, because obviously, having children is a challenge in its ownright, but having a son with Asperger's is another layer ofchallenge as well.
Stephie Boon 29:18
He wasn't diagnosed until he was seventeen, so I just thought hewas a pain in the bum.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 29:29
That's probably how half the teachers described him as well!
Stephie Boon 29:33
Yeah. Oh, yeah. When you look back and his father hasAsperger's, and again, he was diagnosed as an adult, but when youlook back, you can see all the... you can see it there. I mean,it's as plain as day. But it wasn't really until... and I thinkthis is quite typical of Asperger's and autism. It wasn't until myson went through big changes in HIS life, so changing schools,moving from school to sixth form college, and then on touniversity; it's when those things happen, that the stress that yougo through is huge. Because understanding what he's dealing with,it's like, trying to understand an alien.
Stephie Boon 30:27
Try as you might, you can never completely put yourself insomeone else's shoes, whatever their shoes might be, whether it'schronic pain, or illness or something like Asperger's. I split withmy son's dad when when my son was ten, and it was probably actuallyeasier in some respects, because we co-parented. So my son was withme for a week, and then he was with his dad for a week, and welived only three miles apart from each other. But because I hadthat week, that was when I was able to walk, get out on the coast,and just recharge, I suppose as batches. But it was never, I thinkthat was definitely more walking for health, rather than walkingfor a 'challenge', and to fill my soul. I recognise that it doesfill my soul.
Stephie Boon 31:34
One of the things, it's a bit mad, really, but if I notice thatmy mood is dropping, I think everybody tells you that walking isgood for mental health. I've got to go walking every single day.Then I go into overdrive and I'm walking fifteen miles every day.And it's just getting the balance right, isn't it? But yeah, sowhen my son was younger, I think walking was more about health.Obviously it was pleasurable, but it was much more aboutmaintaining an even keel through life rather than the challengesthat I know I've always enjoyed. And I've always enjoyed doing themalone.
Stephie Boon 32:25
I think actually, I was thinking about this prior to this chatwith you. When I was young, I was a teenager, a young teenager. AndI remember thinking, I'd asked someone to do something with me, Ican't even remember what it was now, but they didn't want to do it.And I remember thinking, Well I have to do this on my own then,because if I don't do things on my own, there's no guarantee thatsomebody else has the same interests as me or wants to do the samethings as me. So am I going to deny myself the things that might bepleasurable or fulfilling simply because I don't have somebody tohold my hand? I think that that has been my mantra I supposethroughout my life, as you cannot expect somebody else to comealong with you, because you need someone to hold your hand. Youhave to jump in and be your own friend. That sort of manifestsitself in the simplest of things, like I will go to the cinema onmy own and I have friends who say how do you do that? How on earthcan you go on your own? I think 'I go to a ticket booth, I buy aticket, I go and sit in the dark. and I watch a film!'
Stephie Boon 33:44
Or you know, how can you get into a pub on your own? How can yougo to a cafe on your own? It's just those little things that thenenable you to think, 'oh yeah, I can do that. I can go swimming onmy own I can do this on my own maybe I can do the next bigger thingon my own'. Because if I want to go wild camping, which is what Ilove, absolutely love and I did a fair bit of it on Dartmoor withmy son and his dad. And I thought after we split up will this juststop now because I don't have somebody to do it with? And I thought'no, it damn well doesn't! You get out there and you do it on yourown'. And it's been THE most liberating, wonderful thing. To knowthat you're doing something that you love and nobody else has beenaffected by your needs to fulfill your own needs.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 34:52
Yes, but I remember how freeing how liberating it was when Iwild camped for the first time and then I just thought 'why have Ileft it so long. This is absolutely amazing whatever was Ifrightened of?'
Stephie Boon 35:04
Yeah.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 35:05
And what I love hearing you talk, Stephie is, you know, you'resomebody who clearly was resilient as a child as a teenager. Imean, you had those foundations there already. And I know,actually, I guess a lot of children do - not all - but a lot ofchildren do. But it does break down as we get older, yeah, byculture, or by the people we're with, or just by chemical makeup inour body. But what I love so much hearing you talk, is to hear thefact that you still have these struggles, in one hand. You aresomebody who is very open about struggling with their mentalhealth. And yet, in the other hand, you are fighting everythingthat's in this hand... in the right hand you are fighting it, andyou're saying, 'No! I have got to go and do this. Because if Idon't do this, I might not get the chance to, because other peoplemay not want to come with me, why should I off-load MY dreams andMY ideas onto other people? This is my thing!' And I love thatthose two actually work in harmony, they work in balance with oneanother. Because, you know, I come from a family where my mothersuffers with mental health problems and has done for years andyears. So I understand, and I understand from her standpoint, thatshe does retreat indoors and she doesn't go out. She can't nowbecause of her age. You know, she is housebound. But for many, manyyears, she wasn't able to go out because her head told her shecouldn't go out. And this is what I am just so pleased that youhave found that - that you have found a way to say no, my head isactually bringing me down. I know I need to go out.
Stephie Boon 37:00
Yeah, it's just, I still go out with constraints. As I said, myson has severe anxiety. So when I'm hiking, I'm having to... I gettext from him. Where are you? Where are you wild camping? He'snever happier than when I go to a campsite. And I'm never moremiserable than when I'm on a campsite!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 37:32
Yes. I know that feeling.
Stephie Boon 37:35
We've worked out... I mean, he's twenty-three. His is no longera child, but he does live at home. So we have this agreement that Iwill let him know where I am, so that he feels safe and secure. ButI still have the freedom, I suppose too. And I have to say this,Zoe - sometimes I do pretend there was no reception! Which isterrible!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 38:08
No, for your own mental health and your own sanity, sometimesyou do need to switch off, don't you? And it's a gentle way ofgiving him that message that well, yeah, maybe we've not been incontact today, but I'm sure everything's okay.
Stephie Boon 38:23
I have to say that most of that will be during the day. If hecontacts me during the day. I just think 'No, this is absolutely MYtime, and we've agreed that I will tell you where I am when I'vepitched up my tent, and I'm sticking to that'.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 38:43
So there's something else I want to ask you about, Stephie,because I know you've had many challenges throughout your life.We've touched on those, but there's something that we haven'tdiscussed yet, and something certainly for midlife women that, youknow, as we go through from our forties upwards starts to becomemore apparent, or we start hearing more or we're just more aware,and that is the menopause. We had a little conversation just beforewe started recording, and I actually WISH we had recorded thatbecause you told me your age. There was this deathly silencebecause I did not know you were the age you said are, and in mynotes that I made last night about the sorts of things that Iwanted to touch on with you, the menopause certainly wasn't one ofthem, because I thought you were in your early forties and nowherenear that yet! But actually, that was very dismissive of me. I wasmaking assumptions and even if you had been in your early forties,from what you told me, this would have still counted. So first offStephie, would you mind sharing how old you are, please?
Stephie Boon 39:55
No. I am fifty-six and I think when you introduced me, I thinkyou said that I planned to walk all our national trails by the timeI'm sixty. And I think that before you knew my age, you probablythought I had plenty of time...
Zoe Langley-Wathen 40:14
I did! Because I read through your bio last night and thought ohwell, she's got years to do that. Like, one a year...!
Stephie Boon 40:25
It's creeping up incredibly quickly. I'm going to have to save alot of money and do a lot of miles.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 40:33
How many trails? Is it eighteen national trails?
Stephie Boon 40:36
There are fifteen. But there are some in Scotland, which if youlook at the Long Distance Walking Association, that you can includesome of those and get some major certificate. Anyway, yes, I'mfifty-six.
Stephie Boon 40:56
But I went through the menopause early, and I was thirty-eightwhen I really noticed, I think, perimenopause.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 41:05
That was when you were walking the Inca Trail then?
Stephie Boon 41:07
Yes, and I remember at the time, I went to my GP, I had no ideawhat was happening to my body at the time. But I went to see my GPand she gave me some magic pills, that meant I wouldn't have aperiod whilst I was away, so that was fine. But this is quitegross, but I discovered that I was in that phase of life actually,whilst I was wild camping in, I think it was Dartmoor somewhere.People really don't talk about the details of menopause, orperimenopause. But heavy bleeding is part and parcel of that, and Iwoke up completely out of the blue, literally, in a pool of blood,that made me look like I was a murder victim. I just thought, 'thisisn't right. This is something I need to speak to my GP about'.
Stephie Boon 42:14
So having no idea that it could be perimenopause, I went to myGP, who I knew, and she was asking all these questions. 'Do youhave hot flushes?' I've had maybe a couple but you know, it's justhot in the office. 'Do you have night sweats?' Yeah, but it's justhot under the duvet. 'Is there a history of early menopause in yourfamily?' Yeah, I think my Nan went through an early menopause andshe said, 'well, I'm really sorry'. And I looked at her and Ithought sorry, about what what are you talking about? I mean, itreally did not register at all that she was telling me that thiswas what was happening. And I came away in absolute floods oftears. And I don't know why it was it felt so devastating at thetime, but it really did. It was just, I think, possibly I'd wantedanother child, even though I was quite late for that. But thedifficult thing came and I don't know if it's different now forpeople because obviously this was quite a long time ago now. But Ifelt incredibly alone at that period of time because none of myfriends or contemporaries were going through this. They had no ideawhat happens to you or how... oh my god, if I think about my moods,not just the physical things, but your mental health and how itaffects you.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 43:54
Could you sleep?
Stephie Boon 43:55
No, I was always awake. I'd sleep on towels, trying to soak upthe sweat that some people have. Now, I know, talking to friendsnow, but that's not unusual. But at the time, I had absolutely noidea. There were no books, everything that was written aboutmenopause was aimed at people in their fifties and I felt I had noconnection to that. They were talking about things like Empty NestSyndrome. My child was FIVE!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 44:36
Gosh, that puts it into perspective then doesn't it? Good grief.And so how long did that period of perimenopause last for you,Stephie?
Stephie Boon 44:46
I think I was forty-two/forty-three maybe, when I had my lastperiod. So it's quite common, apparently that with early menopause,that the period of perimenopause can actually go on for ten years.So on and off for a long period of time. But I say luckily, I feelquite lucky, that didn't happen.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 45:17
Five years. Yes. Sounds like.
Stephie Boon 45:19
Yeah, maybe five, seven, on and off, it was. I tell you what,once you're through the other side, it's an absolute gift. Itreally is. I mean, especially if you're an outdoors person, youdon't have to worry about dealing with any of that. So when youngerwomen or women, my age, going through it now, talking about thedifficulties of going on long distance hikes, and how they'remanaging menstruation, I haven't had to deal with that for so long,I've forgotten what that's like! But I don't ever recall itstopping me from getting outside and doing the things that I loveto do outside. It's whether that's, I mean, I had a horribleexperience wild camping. But it didn't stop me going wild camping.There's nothing in the world that would stop me doing that. Youlearn how unpredictable. It's a bit like camping, or hiking,really, there are things that you cannot predict, and you don'tknow what's going to happen. You just have to make the bestpreparations that you can. It's like whether that's carryingeverything that you might need, just in case, or knowing wherecampsites are, just in case.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 46:44
And it's a level of planning - I know you don't like planning -but it is a level of planning, isn't it? Knowing that you've gotthat backup... mitigating risk...
Stephie Boon 46:54
An escape route!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 46:58
Well, we've got probably two more things that I would like toask you before we wrap up, and we're coming towards the end of timenow. I am really interested to know, given all of the things thatwe've talked about, how do you give yourself encouragement duringthose hardest times? Do you have any methods of self talk? Youknow, what encouragement do you give yourself? What mantras, Imean, you have given us one mantra already, which was amazing. Butis there is there something else that you talk to yourself aboutwhen you're going through those difficult times?
Stephie Boon 47:33
When things are really dark and difficult. It's the mantra I'vealready mentioned is: "you are tenacious. You have proved toyourself over and over again, that you can get through this. Youare tenacious."
Stephie Boon 47:49
Remember that. Tell yourself that, and that's what I do.Actually, I was thinking about this the other day - this absolutelycracked me up when I heard it the first time. Janet Street-Porter,of all people, I heard an interview with her a long time ago now.And she said, "as soon as I wake up, as soon as my head comes offthat pillow, I tell myself how brilliant I am. Because no otherbloody bugger is going to tell you."
Stephie Boon 48:14
I thought at the time that's so funny, but there is no way Icould ever tell myself I'm brilliant, because I just don't believeit. So I think that for me, a mantra has to be something Iabsolutely believe about myself, and that maybe I've just forgottenand need a reminder. And it is to remind myself that I WILL getthrough whatever is thrown at me. There is always a way throughbecause I have proved it to myself already. So I know that that's afact.
Stephie Boon 48:53
This is a bit daft as well, but when I'm in a good space, youknow, I think a lot of people are very negative, that they have avery negative body image. And I know that when my mood is low, Ican't bear the sight of myself. And I walked down the streets Icatch a glimpse of myself in a reflection of a shop window, and Iwould just berate myself. Now whenever I catch myself in areflection somewhere, I smile. And I just think, I look at myselfas if I'm meeting a friend or a stranger. I may not be able to talkto myself that way. But I will look at myself that way. And ifsomebody I knew was coming towards me, I would smile and say hello.So I always smile at myself. It's probably this weird random womanwalking down the street grinning at myself.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 49:52
I think that is just lovely. And actually if I can be so forwardas to push that a step further. If you saw a friend walking towardsyou, wearing a beautiful dress or wearing some wonderful walkinggear, even, you would probably say to them, "oh, hello! You lookwonderful today! Oh, you look gorgeous! OR, you ARE beautiful". Andso yeah, there you go. I have said it Stephie.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 50:23
It's that little voice on your shoulder, isn't it and the morethat the Negative Nancy on one shoulder is telling you these thingsin your ear, I know it seeps into your psyche. And so somehow youhave to find a way of having Positive Polly, I've just made thosetwo up, on the other side, that is just going to feed you with goodstuff. And if saying it doesn't work, then perhaps writing it downwill. You know, maybe having something that you write every daythat tells you...
Stephie Boon 50:53
I have named the negative person that I have felt pushes me upagainst the wall and shouts all this negative stuff so loudly thatI believe it, as Benito... as in Mussolini. And now I tellMussolini - Benito, that I'm not listening anymore.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 51:19
Get lost! Get lost.
Stephie Boon 51:21
La, la, la, la, I'm not listening. But it is hard. It's veryhard when you're used to having that voice in your head that is sointense and so loud, I found that the only way I can overcome it isto disassociate myself from it. To call it, it's like anotherperson inside my head and not having that person in my head. Whywould anybody want Benito in my head. It's finding those copingstrategies, those counteractions and finding what works for you,and certainly grinning at myself randomly in the reflections ispositive.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 52:04
So the very last thing that I want to ask you, Stephie is thequestion that I ask everybody else: do you have a HeadRightOutMoment that you could share with us? Something where you havestepped out of your comfort zone and done something that you neverthought possible, you never thought you were capable of? But youdid it, and you've benefitted from it?
Stephie Boon 52:27
Yes. In recent years, I was going hiking, I think probably for aweek on the South West Coast Path, on the north coast, sort of inDevon somewhere, and somebody I'd met and didn't know. But I metthem said, oh, I'd like to join you for a day for a walk. And Isaid, yeah, that would be great, come along. He was actually basedin Devon and I met him on a course that I was doing, whichwas that I trained as a lowland leader, and he was on the samecourse. And I said, Yeah, come for a walk for a day. So I got thismessage saying, I've rearranged my entire work week, and I can nowcome for the week, and I was floored. Absolutely speechless.Dumbstruck. I just did not know what to say, or how to say,"No".
Stephie Boon 53:25
So this man came on this walk with me, wild camping, and theentire time, I felt unbelievably passive aggressive. Was hangingbehind thinking, if only it was legal to push you over the cliff,he'd be gone! He talked about hiking on a Greek island somewhereand how much he loved this, and he just constantly talked about it,which meant I didn't feel I had the time to enjoy where I was, tobe in the moment.
Stephie Boon 53:58
So when I got home from that, and I recounted this story tofriends, they said, well, you'll definitely know how to say "no"now, don't you? And I thought, this is my HeadRightOut Moment. Inow know when to say "no", and how to say "no". I know that that'spossibly not the kind of moment that you were thinking of, but forme, that was a major'I-need-to-do-this-for-myself-and-I-need-to-do-it-without-compromise'.And that was a big compromise. It was that moment of understanding.I don't walk with people on long distance hikes like that, for thisreason, and I let it happen because I didn't know how to say"no".
Zoe Langley-Wathen 54:46
There's actually two sides to that, isn't there? Because you'velearned that yes, you need to be able to say no, and I think thatwill become another HeadRightOut Moment, at the point where you areput in that position - and that possibly hasn't happened yet. Butyeah the HeadRightOut Moment that I see there is actually justgoing ahead and walking with this guy for a week. But underneath itall you're all gr,gr,grrrrrrrrrrr!
Stephie Boon 55:13
It was terrible.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 55:14
How on earth did you cope?
Stephie Boon 55:15
I am not an early morning person at all, and when I am camping,it takes me ages to pack everything up because I feel like acomplete zombie. Just so slow, and he sent me a text one morningsaying, "wakey-wakey!"
Zoe Langley-Wathen 55:35
Argggh!
Stephie Boon 55:36
Absolutely. I was so livid, and I didn't say anything. I justkept silent and held all this anger. I thought why should I bedoing this? I will never let that happen again.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 55:57
I wonder if he thought you were a moody wotsit.
Stephie Boon 56:00
Quite likely. Quite likely.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 56:02
That's the polite version... a moody wotsit!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 56:07
Well, Stephie This has been an absolute treat. We've had achance to catch up. You've shared a lot of wonderful experienceswith us and with me that I haven't heard before. And I just hopethat at some point soon here, we actually get to meet face-to-faceand go on a LITTLE walk together. It's alright - not a longdistance one! Just a little one.
Stephie Boon 56:30
I wouldn't mind you Zoe, at all! I think it was just thisparticular person.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 56:36
I wouldn't want you to be passive aggressive with me - haha!
Stephie Boon 56:39
No I wouldn't, I wouldn't!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 56:41
Well, if I'm coming down to Cornwall, and I'm coming down yourway, I will give you a ring. I have your number now.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 56:50
I HAVE YOUR NUMBER... hehe...
Stephie Boon 56:54
When I'm planning to walk the Pembrokeshire Coast Path, this ismy plan for next year so I will give you a call.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 57:01
That would be fabulous. So, Stephie, where can people find youon social media and online?
Stephie Boon 57:07
I have a website and blog called 10MileHike, which is all oneword, and that's a 1, 0. You can find me mostly on Instagram, whereit's TenMileHike again, but unfortunately it had to bespelt T.E.N - 10MileHike, because the number had actually gone.They are the main places that you can find me. But I've also justset up a Ko-Fi account and it's like a mini-blog so I canpost little bits and pieces.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 57:44
Is that where people can go and buy you a coffee if theywant.
Stephie Boon 57:46
Yes. Yeah,
Zoe Langley-Wathen 57:47
That's brilliant. Yes. Well, thank you so much. This has beenwonderful and I hope people go and check you out on Instagram anddo go and check out Stephie's website because she's completelyoverhauled it. It is fabulous. There is SO much information onthere and she's got a beautiful way of writing.
Stephie Boon 57:49
Thank you.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 58:01
It flows and I was chuffed to be included in her Woman Afoot Series, as well, where Italked about my walking experiences there too.
Stephie Boon 58:16
Zoe, it was a pleasure. It's been an absolute pleasure. Nerveshave completely gone.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 58:22
Yaaay! Stephie Boon, thank you very much.
Stephie Boon 58:25
Thank you. Take care, Zoe!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 58:35
Oh my word. What a raw and honest conversation that was withStephie. Perfect for World Menopause Day too, which was the 18th ofOctober. And as this goes live on the 20th of October, it's thesame week. It's all about encouraging conversations surroundingmenopause. I know a lot of thoughts may be generated regardingmental health too, from the conversations that Stephie and I hadabout her difficulties with mental health. And I hope that if youhave any issues or any worries about a friend that you will take amoment to contact them, ask them how they are, see if there'sanything you can do to help them, and perhaps if it's you, maybeyou'll seek help. You will look for the support that you need... ifyou don't already have that support. We are here for you. There'sso many people out there, that are here for you. And I hope thatyou will gain some reassurance from listening to Stephie'sstory.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 59:36
Now I had a back-and-forth text conversation with Stephie, laterthe same evening. We recorded this last week and I'd like to sharewith you some of the text that I received from her, because I thinkyou'll find this funny. So here was the text:
Zoe Langley-Wathen 59:51
Oh dear, Zoe, did I say I was fifty-six? Ummmm... I can'tremember, but if I did, it was wishful thinking, because I'mfifty-seven!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:00:02
So I replied, No, really? That's so funny. I'll make a note ofit in the end reflections. Am I allowed to put it down topost-menopausal brain?
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:00:14
And Stephie says, I did say I was fifty-six, then... haha, whatam I like? She then says I was fifty-six when I hiked the SouthDowns Way, so it was definitely a forty-year anniversary. That bitwas right. My birthday is in mid-August so I was fifty-six when Ihiked the Cotswold Way too. Anything after that, I've obviouslyblanked out. She says, feel free to blame it on dyscalculia - nodiagnosis but if she had a test, Stephie says she'd be 'off thescale'. Do you know it's so easy to get numbers muddled up, I do itall the time. And Stephie says she gets her son's birth datemuddled up, I get numbers muddled up too. It's just one of thosethings, so I'm not even sure I'm gonna put that down topost-menopause, but I'm sure a lot of us can relate to this. SoStephie is fifty-seven years old, and she didn't realise it. Thatis SO funny. But oddly enough, I remember not being able to decideif I was forty-seven or forty-eight a few years back, so it's notjust you Stephie. Don't worry.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:01:22
Now I have had a HeadRightOut Moment sent through to me by Bea,and this was a real joy for me to read:
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:01:30
Ten Peak Challenge. I still remember my first mountain. We wereon a girl's trip exploring Scotland when we decided it would be agood idea to hike Ben Nevis. I don't think I've ever complained somuch. How could hiking up a hill be so hard? Once down, I vowednever to do it again.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:01:51
Luckily, I'd forgotten that promise when a few years later, Ifelt the need for a challenge. I don't like doing what everyoneelse does. So I decided to make my own. "I know, I'll summit theten highest Munroes, in five days."
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:02:06
How hard could it be?
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:02:09
I should add that my total mountaineering experience was stillonly Ben Nevis in trainers, but not one to be put off by it, Ispent the next five months getting fit, buying the right gear,learning to read a map (ish), and generally falling in love withhiking.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:02:28
I thought I was ready. But I wasn't. I was not prepared for myboots to fall apart on day three. Or to find myself in the middleof a plateau in whiteout conditions, having completely forgottenhow to understand my compass.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:02:43
I did not expect for it to rain so hard that my phone would stopworking from water damage, or for the map to be whipped out of myhands by gale force winds leaving me stranded with just my memoryto keep me going. I had not expected my mind to fight me every stepof the way: "Stop, turn around!", "It's too hard!", "Youaren't going to make it." This challenge showed me that we arecapable of what we set our minds to. That physical challenges arenot just about physical ability, but more so the ability toconvince your brain that you DO have what it takes. That you canmake it. It taught me that pain doesn't last forever, that it fadesfrom our memories.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:03:26
I know I was in pain for much of it, but that's long forgotten.What I remember is the fear of having to cross the CMD arête,that's Carn Mor Dearg arête, despite being scared of heights. Andthe exhilarating feeling when I got to the other side, I remembersitting on my final peak, crying tears of joy, because I had madeit despite everything that had gone wrong. I remember running asfast as I could towards the last gondola of the day to get me downfrom Aonach Mòr, having had to change my entire route. due to badweather. I made it to the gondola just in time, only for it to stophalfway down the mountain. It gently swung back and forth for halfan hour before setting off again. I thought I'd been forgottenabout I knew that the Ten Peaks were going to be a physicalchallenge, but I never realised I would be putting my mentalresilience to the test in that way. But it turns out we CAN achievewhat we set our minds to.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:04:29
Indeed we can, Bea!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:04:32
Wow! Bea has sent me three photographs which I'm going to put inthe show notes. And the last photo where she's looking up with thisvast view that just falls away behind her.
She's above the clouds and you can see a loch in the distance.And she just has that look of somebody who's completelyenergy-spent but deliriously happy.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:04:58
Yes, there's one of the pictures, she's standing, I'm assumingit's at the summit, with her arms raised and her poles danglingfrom her wrists. And it looks like it pretty much is a whiteout. Sothank you, Bea, for sending that in. I really appreciate all ofthese HeadRightOut Moments that people are sending in. It justallows us to share and celebrate even more how important it is forus to push ourselves - push ourselves beyond what we think we'recapable of doing. And that HeadRightOut Moment has clearly made Beaa whole ton stronger than she thought she was.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:05:38
Now if you'd like to go, follow Bea she is on the socials as atB, B EA, underscore adventurous, underscore, that's Instagram. So@bea_adventurous_ and her blog is bea-adventurous.com. And that'sactually bea hyphen adventurous.com. And she talks all about hertravels and the things that she's been up to over the last fewyears. It's a really great blog.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:06:16
Okay, well I have a little request today, to ask if you lovelypeople who have been following and listening to the show, if youcould possibly rate and review and follow the podcast to help withthe visibility of the show. HeadRightOut exceeded five hundreddownloads last week in nineteen countries, which I'm delightedabout. I've been excitedly watching the map to see if we can getinto the twentieth country. But I've just been amazed at howquickly this has grown in the three weeks since I launched. Sothank you all for listening and supporting me and thank you for allof your lovely messages and your posts, your likes, your shares andeven the emojis. If it's just a few emojis, I just know that you'rethere with me, and they're keeping me fuelled and believing thatthis IS the right path and that HeadRightOut IS needed. It isneeded to encourage you to head out of your comfort zone and createan armour of resilience, that will help keep your head right andhealthy in the outdoors.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:07:30
HeadRightOut Hugs to you all.
